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BBQ help - LT72884 - 11-15-2009 12:57 PM

Some of you here have read my posts at another forum. I am having some serious issues with bbq. Its either that or i seriously have some screwed up taste buds. Here is what i did just so you know the info and if anything seems wierd let me know. I rubed the baby backs with some homemade rub from the internet. I rubbed the pork butt with oil,garlic powder, kosher salt and black pepper. Smocked the ribs and butt in a kettle indirectly at 250-275 for 3 hours with a handfull of cherry chips in a foil pouch. Glazzed the ribs with a sauce. Foiled the butt and left it to finish. BOTH the ribs and butt tasted like bacon and ham. Did not taste anything like ribs or pulled pork for that matter. It tasted very odd. I used plain old kingsford BUT it was fully ashed over. I did not like it. My family really liked it but i did not. Pulled pork from other places or people i like cuz i can taste the pork. So something is happening that is causing me not to like it. I like stuff from places that use electric smokers or stick burners. Maybe its the charcoal or cherry chips. Maybe i need to stick with good ole hickory wood. Im commin to you guys cuz i have had your food before when we met in summer time at T's place for the overnight cook. I trust you guys..

plz help. i aint givin up yet.

Thanx guys


Re: BBQ help - Larry Jacobs - 11-15-2009 01:54 PM

You didn't mention where the meat came from. The ribs should be natural like from Sams or Costco. The chain stores like to sell ribs with stuff added.
My next door neighbor tried duplicating my brisket in his Traeger. I told him to start with a flat. His brisket tasted weird and when I asked him about the meat source he showed me the wrapper. It was corned brisket that was in a corned beef kit.
I would suggest you try just the ribs next time. Stick to natural no additives. Skip the rub and saucing and just cook it nude. Cook it until it wants to tear at the bone. You may be goofed up with the spices and time. My baby backs cook out at 4 1/2 hours while full spares take 5 to six. Try that for taste then you will have a better idea which direction to go.

Re: BBQ help - PackerBacker - 11-15-2009 01:55 PM

Hey Matt, The first thing that comes to my mind when you said,"tastes like ham" Are you buying all natural meat or are they enhanced with 10%-12% sodium???
Meats that are enhanced can sometimes taste hammy

Hope this helps


Re: BBQ help - Gene - 11-15-2009 02:34 PM

What they said. Coming from one that prefers pellets over chunks.
I had a big old post set up and hit send and it never left the screen just went to never never land I guess.
A lot of the seasonings I have bought and seen from the world out there are way to salty. Add salt to your rub and you may be getting a double dose of the salts. If the meat has been injected.
I have heard and seen posts here and there that this charcoal is better than that, this wood better than that etc. Try them all, as $$ allows.
Keep doing one thing, take notes on everything and change you do. You will probably fill a 3 ring binder on ribs alone. Start with ribs if you like. Then keep at it. Then butts, chicken etc. once you feel you are satisfied. Then do a contest and see what happens. Dave and Larrys' points are what I had said the first time I tried to respond to your question. BTW, both have and use pellet rigs, just one uses more than the other. Right Dave? Smile

- LT72884 - 11-15-2009 03:09 PM

Sorry the meat was 100% all natural organic meat from a butcher. I had that in the post but i must have accendently wrote over it with something else. Ill have to try just pork with no rub or anything. What about smoke though??

thanx guys. It tasted just like the meats that have the 12% mixture. I started buying more expensive meats to get away from that, but i guess not. haha

- SoEzzy - 11-15-2009 03:41 PM

What was the rub you bought/ used?

How long did it sit on the meat before you smoked it?

How much of the chips did you use in the smoke?

- LT72884 - 11-15-2009 05:17 PM

SoEzzy;p="19678 Wrote:What was the rub you bought/ used?

How long did it sit on the meat before you smoked it?

How much of the chips did you use in the smoke?
I found a recipe on the net called the rendevous rub. I let it sit 45 minutes or less. I used one medium sized handfull of cherry chips placed in a foil boat with no water. Water just creates steam and when the water burns off the wood catches on fire anyway. So i dont soak them. The smoke did smell sweet

here is the rub recipe:

1-2 tablespoons sugar OPTIONAL
8 tablespoons paprika
4 tablespoons powdered garlic
4 tablespoons mild chili powder
3 tablespoons ground black pepper
3 tablespoons kosher salt
2 tablespoons whole celery seed
4 teaspoons whole yellow mustard seed
1 tablespoon dried crushed oregano
1 tablespoon dried crushed thyme
1.5 teaspoon ground allspice
1.5 teaspoon ground coriander

thanx guys

- Guest - 11-15-2009 08:27 PM

What were you cooking on? I didn't see it on your post.

Re: BBQ help - Larry Jacobs - 11-15-2009 08:47 PM

That rub you don't want. The Rendevous in Memphis developed that rub for thier ribs that are flash cooked at 800 degrees for about 1 hour at most. It gives them a crust that some people like. I've eatin there a half dozen imes but I still like the low slow.

- SoEzzy - 11-15-2009 09:59 PM

1) Make a pouch not a boat.

Fold foil in thirds, fold up bottom , add chips, fold down top, poke 1 small hole with the tine of a fork in the back, put onto the top of the burning charcoal.

2) Start with a simple rub and then add to it, one item at a time.

1 part Kosher Salt
1 Part Brown Sugar (I prefer Turbinado)
1 Part Black Pepper
1 Part Paprika (any type, Spanish / Hungarian, sharp to sweet).

And slowly add to it until you get somewhere you like.

1 part Kosher Salt
1 Part Brown Sugar
1 Part Black Pepper
1/2 Part White Pepper
1 Part Paprika (any type)
1/8 Part Cumin
1/2 Part Granulated Garlic
1/2 Part Onion Powder
1/8 Part Mustard Powder

- LT72884 - 11-16-2009 12:04 AM

Thanx guys. I am cooking on a kettle atm. I have a UDS BUT it is packed away so i had to make due.

Here are a few pics of how i did it. Chris. Thanx for the info about the rub. Lary thank you as well. So you are saying that a rub can be designed based on how you are going to cook the meat?

[Image: GEDC0551.jpg]

[Image: GEDC0550.jpg]

Re: BBQ help - Larry Jacobs - 11-16-2009 11:12 AM

Right. It is poured thick on the ribs, heat blasted over super hot coals for a very short time as it is melted into a crust. It really never has a chance to flavor the meat. I got the same recipe from Wilford Brimley's nephew that used to work at the Rendevous. He used to have a BBQ joint in Lehi. When I worked in North Little Rock we would drive up to Memphis on weekends to eat.
Really, stick with either a known commercial product ( there are some great ones out there like T's) or stay basic until he get firmly seated in the "Q" saddle.

- LT72884 - 11-16-2009 03:04 PM

Larry.. thanx. I want to make my own rubs that taste great so i can learn the art and science of it all before i but some commercial ones. So Ezzys rub is where i am going to start, but i need to learn what he means buy one part sugar one part salt and 1/8th cumin etc etc. Im guessing if i use a tablespoon of salt then i use a tablespoon of sugar and 1/8th tablespoon cumin... I have paul kirks book on rub making as well.

Ok for the most important part of my question: When i cook a slab of baby backs in the nude on the weber kettle, How should i cook them? 3-2-1 method or just smoke them for 4.5 hours or so with hickory and no foil? Should i use my rancher charcoal mixed with some of the mesquite lump from standard wood? Should i use original kingsford or just buy some BGE lump or RoyalOak lump and mix it with rancher or just plane lump? Im starting right from the begining again cuz i think i have some seriously screwed up taste buds. Took me 58 minutes the other day to debate what i wanted for lunch. I just want to like what i cook is all. Im trying to replicate my fav resturaunts here in utah like chicken express.

Anyway thanx for the help everyone. I will conquer this battle.. MOOHAHA. Wheres T at these days anyway. I need to call him and chat with him. Havent seen him for a couple of months..

- Frankenswine - 11-16-2009 06:58 PM

Anyway thanx for the help everyone. I will conquer this battle.. MOOHAHA. Wheres T at these days anyway. I need to call him and chat with him. Havent seen him for a couple of months..[/quote]

I think he has been laid up trying to recover from helping unload those 10,000 bags of charcoal you were talking about on the other board.. Big Grin


- LT72884 - 11-16-2009 07:04 PM

love2grill;p="19699 Wrote:Anyway thanx for the help everyone. I will conquer this battle.. MOOHAHA. Wheres T at these days anyway. I need to call him and chat with him. Havent seen him for a couple of months..

I think he has been laid up trying to recover from helping unload those 10,000 bags of charcoal you were talking about on the other board.. Big Grin


LOL hey. Someone told me thats how many it was. But hey if there is any left over ill take them off of your hands for a buck or two


- Guest - 11-16-2009 09:06 PM

LT72884;p="19697 Wrote:Larry.. thanx. I want to make my own rubs that taste great so i can learn the art and science of it all before i buy some commercial ones...

Hey, Matt...

Hope you don't mind if I chime in here for just a second... For you - and perhaps other new cooks out there reading this - I think there was a LOT of wisdom in what Larry suggested in terms of the use of commercial rubs (and sauces) early on in your BBQ efforts...

Why? Because by trying a few commercial rubs (and/or sauces) that are popular with the judges and/or the public first, then I think you will have a better idea as to where to go with your own rub/sauce at some point... And not waste a lot of time and $$ trying to develop a good one totally by experimentation... I, too, own quite a few BBQ books by some of the "gurus"... And they all have quite a few recipes for rubs and/or sauces... But the truth of the matter is that many of those recipes aren't worth a hoot, either, IMHO... And/or they are marginal at best...

I will also tell you I have been fortunate to have taken a couple of great classes in the past 2 years taught by Donny Teal (Buffalo BBQ), Rod Gray (Pellet Envy), and Johnny Trigg (Smokin' Triggers)... Go to the KCBS site or "The Pickled Pig" or the "National BBQ Rankings" sites and you will see their names way up towards the top... And guess what? They ALL use commercial rubs and sauces... Not a single one mixes his own "secret rub" or sauce out of "basic" spices...

Don't get me wrong here... I am not suggesting you never develop your own rub or sauce... But I think early on - and especially if you are unhappy with your own efforts to date - then start with something that is a "known entity" - and then go from there... T certainly has some good products... They have rub/sauce comps at the American Royal and Great American BBQ comps each year, and those results are out there on the internet... Heck, try calling a store like the Kansas City Barbecue Store (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.thekansascitybbqstore.com">http://www.thekansascitybbqstore.com</a><!-- m -->) and ask them what they are selling a lot of... And then give a brand or two or three a try...

But get a "base" for yourself that you can build on... Otherwise, you sure could find yourself buying a lot of different spices and doing a lot of "experimenting" before you might find a good combination...

Just my thoughts (and I know there will folks who don't agree... :wink: )

But I am also speaking from my own kitchen cabinet - which is busting at the seams with spices I only tried/used once.... :shock:


- LT72884 - 11-16-2009 09:36 PM

Thanx Hoochie. I have TONS and TONS of spices in the cupboard that mom has bought over the years. I still live at home. YAY go me!! Any way LOL, this is hard to explain. I have used commercial products before especially mccormic. I have the kind of personality that has to compete with the commercial stuff. I like to create something good and call it my own. I will need to find a store that has a good commercial rub and try it. So how do commercial rubs differ from homemade rubs? they all have basic dried spices and herbs in it. T's rub has basic spices in it and it is way good. I swear that commercial rubs and spice mixtures have something in there that aint on the label. It could say sugar, salt, pepper and garlic and i could mix those same spices together and get a totally different flavor. Bugs me. I make it my mission to make it taste good. Maybe i wanna make my own commercial rub one day. LOL. See how my personality is. Im to competitive!! In no way shape or form was i thrashing your post. Im going to buckle down and buy me some famous daves rub cuz its at walmart and its readily available. Unless "chardust" brand is any good? I just wanna be good at this and make people happy with good food. haha.

Re: BBQ help - Guest - 11-16-2009 10:46 PM

Nothing wrong with that competitive nature of yours.... Not at all.... A lot of us have it... I'd just hate to see you get too discouraged early on because of "struggles" trying to perfect your own rub (or sauce)...

I'd also tell you I don't know how many "good" commercial rubs you are going to find at most local supermarkets or Wally Worlds... Maybe so... I know you can't find much that is very good at my local supermarkets or Wal-Mart.... The Kansas City BBQ Store is a great source... So is HawgsEye (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hawgeyesbbq.com">http://www.hawgeyesbbq.com</a><!-- m -->)... Talk to those guys at those sites/stores, and then try 2-3 and see what you like...

Again - I am not trying to discourage you from doing your own... I'd just like to see you get going with a little success and fun here as quickly as possible...

Once you find one that is "close" to your likes, look at the ingredients - and then go back to those books of yours... Chances are you will find a recipe that is pretty close using most of those ingredients... Then play with it from there... That will help you establish some sort of "base" with your proportions on the spices... With a whole lot of time/training/experience, you can get to where you are like T and can just "know" what you need and how much... But until you get to that time/level, make it easy on yourself - and start enjoying your Que.. I am not gathering from your comments you are "enjoying" much right now - and hey, this is supposed to be fun & gratifying!! And you CAN get to that level pretty quickly with a good commercial rub - while working on that "special, secret" rub/sauce that you can proudly call your own...

One last note, too... The "good stuff" is generally pretty darn simple, too... When you start seeing these recipes with "tons" of different ingredients - well, I'd just pass on by and keep on looking... KISS works pretty darn good when it comes to Que IMHO...

I indeed have used "Char Dust" - but just with steaks and fish when grilling... Good stuff IMHO on those meats for certain...


Re: BBQ help - Cyclops - 11-16-2009 11:03 PM

LT, Hoochie has given excellent advice! I would add that any spice that you have had for more than 6 months, toss 'em. Like anything, spices, especially ground, will go stale. Good luck!

- LT72884 - 11-16-2009 11:43 PM

Thanx hoochie and cyclops. Im gonna go buy me some rub from famous daves and one from T. Whats a good one from T? At least a name so i buy the right thing for the right job. Kind like something that will work on ribs and pulled pork. Im competitive cuz my grandpa played for the yankies back in the 40's and he passed that trait to me.. It can be anoying cuz i aint happy till i have something that is just as good or better than the commercial stuff or whatever the comp is. BUT like you said, with some experience and some time i can and will make some kick butt rubs. KISS is an awesome method. To bad my rub i created using a gurus technique is like 15 items. See im to competitive..

* 1/2 cup dark brown sugar(dry it out first)
* 1/2 cup white cane sugar
* 1/2 cup seasoned salt
* 1/4 cup garlic salt
* 1/8 cup celery salt
* 1/8 cup onion salt
* 1/2 cup paprika
* 2 TBS chili powder/seasoning
* 2 TBS black pepper
* 2 tsp rubbed sage
* 1 tsp crushed chives
* 1 tsp dry mustard
* 1/2 tsp cayenne or chipolte powder

LOL, i failed.. I have never even tried that rub yet it LOOKS and SOUNDS good but no idea what it tastes like. ahaha

Ya, i aint enjoyin this whole Q situation right now. Im waitin to hear back from larry about cookin them ribs nude and how i am supposed to do that. As in 3-2-1 or just smoked and no foil. I have rancher charcoal witch i will use for the heat in the weber kettle grill. I also have 50 pounds of this mesquite lump from standard wood supply. Not sure if i use that for grillin or for Q'in

thanx guys. I appreciate the major major help. I really want to compete next spring or summer with something but it has to be locally in utah cuz im poor and no job and a full time student. haha. Or at least cook with some people from this forum.



I feel bad my posts are not as long as the others posting. haha.

Re: BBQ help - Gene - 11-17-2009 12:01 AM

Cooking nude? :shock:
I just beat Sampson to it, ya'll knew he'd post something like this sooner or later.
Some of those rubs have MSG in them. I care not to use the stuff.

Re: BBQ help - Larry Jacobs - 11-17-2009 01:56 AM

You know. If I were you I would start as basic as I could and grow from there. Just stick with basic Kingsford, keep the number of spices in the rub few, and throw away the clock and cook to where you think they are done. No law against chopping off a couple bones, trying them to see if they should be on longer. On the wood I would just let the load burn out, no reason to add more. That first smoking will carry through the cook. Remember since wood is not your heat source like a stick burner or pellet cooker, you have to look at it like salt, good to the taste, not needed to cook and to often over done.

Re: BBQ help - SoEzzy - 11-17-2009 10:06 AM

Good end points Larry! :wink:

- LT72884 - 11-17-2009 10:19 AM

Thanx Larry. I take it that a cloak is the foil trick?

Ill try again this week and see what happens. I need to use some of my rancher so i will use that. No rub for the ribs and a handful of hickory chips in the lil foil pouch. Ill cook for 4 - 4.5 hours or till tender..

Do i need to take off the tissue behind the ribs?


Re: BBQ help - Larry Jacobs - 11-17-2009 11:37 AM

I'm outta here.