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A Question (or Two) About Injecting
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Tayster Offline
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Post: #1
A Question (or Two) About Injecting
I have injected a few marinades into meat, but I don't know if I'm doing it correctly. I mean, do I inject it into a bunch of different places? And how much should I inject?

I guess I just don't know if I have enough in there or if it's spreading out enough.

Any help would be great.

Thanks.

If a cow ever got the chance, he'd eat you and everyone you care about!
06-13-2007 12:29 PM
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Post: #2
Re: A Question (or Two) About Injecting
Hey, Tayster...

Generally the fewer the external holes the better... It is best to select a "site", insert the injector at different angles from that one "site", and inject at the different angles from that 1 "site"... You also want to "go deep" with the insertion initially, and then pull out slightly as you inject... (Kinda sounds pornographic, huh? :oops: ) Then do the same in another 3-4-5 "sites", depending on the size of the cut of meat...

Key thing is to minimize the number of times/sites you make an external injection hole...

Best wishes...
06-13-2007 05:24 PM
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Tayster Offline
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Post: #3
Re: A Question (or Two) About Injecting
Thanks Hooch.

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06-14-2007 07:52 AM
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Post: #4
Re: A Question (or Two) About Injecting
As for how much to use, one ounce per pound is a good guideline.

Cheers,
John
06-14-2007 11:21 AM
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SlowJoes Offline
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Post: #5
Re: A Question (or Two) About Injecting
If the mead is in a cryovac bag, I'll do as Hoochie does with as few holes as possible injecting as I pull out (see what you did Hoochie, Boom chicha wowwow) and through the same hole I'll re direct the needle. I do this without removing the meat from the bag.
I will also inject the H*ll out of it.

Practice, practice, practice and ask questions Smile

Joe,
Spud's BBQ Co.
06-14-2007 02:53 PM
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no1plumber Offline
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Post: #6
Re: A Question (or Two) About Injecting
Hoochie has it just right.
06-14-2007 06:02 PM
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DOBBQ Offline
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Post: #7
Re: A Question (or Two) About Injecting
I had a converstion with a Chef one time and he bluntly told me if you need to inject it, it is either the wrong cut of meat or that my cooking skills were lacking. Until that time we did it as previously stated but haven't done it since my lesson/lecture...

Mostly to make light of the topic not criticize...
06-15-2007 06:22 AM
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Re: A Question (or Two) About Injecting
DOBBQ;p="4897 Wrote:I had a converstion with a Chef one time and he bluntly told me if you need to inject it, it is either the wrong cut of meat or that my cooking skills were lacking. Until that time we did it as previously stated but haven't done it since my lesson/lecture...

Mostly to make light of the topic not criticize...

Without a doubt, injecting is a topic many people have strong opinions about... I will simply state that injecting is certainly not uncommon at comps, especially with butts... And I am hearing more and more do it with briskets.... In the case of butts, they are a big, tough piece of meat to begin with... Always have been, always will be.... Unlike a brisket - where you have various grades of beef (choice, select, CAB, etc) and you have some control regarding the quality/tenderness of the cut of meat - pork butts are just pork butts... And they are one tough mother... (And this is part of the history behind Que as well - to take a tough cut of meat most folks generally would not select/choose, and turn it into a low and slow culinary delight!!)

While they smoke lovely on the outside, in my limited experience the smoke flavor (or any flavor) does not penetrate very deep into a butt... Even when you butterfly the thing... You can marinate and get some results that way - but again, it is going to be limited to a degree by the amount of time you have to marinate in advance... At a KCBS comp, you can't arrive with a piece of meat already marinated (I think I read the rules correctly on that issue), and you generally don't have a lot of time to marinate butts since they have to get on the smoker the first night of the comp... Therefore, you are going to see/hear some cooks inject butts especially, since they need a flavorful sample to submit to the judges (they have maybe 1 bite to impress a judge), it is a tough piece of meat, and they don't have the luxury of marinating overnight or several days in advance...

I would generally agree that the right cut of meat and/or the right cooking technique can go a long way in lieu of injecting... But a pork butt isn't a good cut, there aren't various grades of pork butt, and if you are confronted with a time element already - well, I wouldn't rule out injecting.... I am not saying injecting is the only way to get a more flavorful butt, especially at a comp and/or if you have some time considerations at home - but it shouldn't be discounted, either... A LOT of the "Big Winners" out there inject...

Just my 2 cents worth... 8)
06-15-2007 07:51 AM
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SlowJoes Offline
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Post: #9
 
What DOBBQ says has merit as there are many cooks winning without injecting but on the same token there are many big names winning by adding injection into the prep procedure. As for the chef, you don't cook the same for a restaurant/catering that you do for a comp.. I do catering, but it's small scale so I can do it almost like I do in comp. but not quite.
I do inject both my pork and brisket and so far have done fairly well by doing so.

Just my .02

Joe,
Spud's BBQ Co.
06-15-2007 01:00 PM
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crashpilot
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Post: #10
 
I've read the books written by Ray Lampe and Paul Kirk. BOTH of them say that other guys might inject and it tastes ok, but they would NEVER inject anything they are cooking.. I suspect that they might be going on record saying they don't inject so that when they get to a cookoff, other folks won't either.. Wink
(My question/point is do you think those guys inject when nobody is looking?)
06-18-2007 09:54 AM
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crashpilot;p="4939 Wrote:I've read the books written by Ray Lampe and Paul Kirk. BOTH of them say that other guys might inject and it tastes ok, but they would NEVER inject anything they are cooking.. I suspect that they might be going on record saying they don't inject so that when they get to a cookoff, other folks won't either.. Wink
(My question/point is do you think those guys inject when nobody is looking?)

LOL.. Who knows... Times & things & techniques are always changing... Myron Mixon (Jack's Old South) and Chris Lilly (Big Bob Gibson) certainly don't hide the fact that they inject, and they win... But so do others who don't inject...

It's a personal preference for certain... On any given day, it's the cut of meat, your rub, the weather, your technique, your skills, and the judges... 8)
06-18-2007 12:39 PM
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DOBBQ Offline
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Post: #12
 
I personnaly have gained more technical expertise by not injecting. When injecting the result was pretty much pass/fail. Cooking without injecting has gratly tightened up my skill level boundaries...lol
06-18-2007 03:03 PM
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Post: #13
Re: A Question (or Two) About Injecting
I've injected my butts and briskets exactlty once. I prefer the satisfaction of doing it 'old school' and letting the chips fall where they may. I feel the same way about foiling. I've tried it and I don't like it, except for resting.

John
06-18-2007 11:36 PM
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crashpilot
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Post: #14
 
DOBBQ;p="4942 Wrote:I personnaly have gained more technical expertise by not injecting. When injecting the result was pretty much pass/fail. Cooking without injecting has gratly tightened up my skill level boundaries...lol
PatioDaddio;p="4944 Wrote:I've injected my butts and briskets exactlty once. I prefer the satisfaction of doing it 'old school' and letting the chips fall where they may.
You guys are NOT making this easy on me. My Dad bought a really nice butt and has asked me to smoke it for some company he is having over this next weekend. I thought I would go the extra step and pick some sort of a spicy citrus/ginger flavored marinade to inject. Now I'm doubting my decision.

Thanks a LOT!!! LOL
06-19-2007 07:47 AM
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Re: A Question (or Two) About Injecting
My advice? Experiment on your own time/meat... Since this is for Dad and his friends, I'd stick with what you know is "tried and true"...

Then - when you have some "room" to experiment, try injecting at that time and see what you think... And even then it may take several times before you find a marinade you truly like...

And then again, you may decide you don't even like injecting at all, as has been the case with some here...

But I would stay with what I know for Dad and company - and "experiment" when it is just you and the dog... 8) (and realize there will be times even the dog will turn up his nose at what you have prepared!! ) :shock:
06-19-2007 08:18 AM
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crashpilot
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Hoochie-Que;p="4946 Wrote:My advice? Experiment on your own time/meat.
Good sound advice. Thanks for the clear thinking.
06-19-2007 10:35 AM
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no1plumber Offline
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Post: #17
Re: A Question (or Two) About Injecting
What I've found over the years cooking for large groups and small groups is that most people won't be able to tell the difference. Most people around these parts have never had a realy good BBQ and anything you give them will impress them. As you can see here on the site, you ask what you think is a simple question and for every cook you get a different answer.
Hoochie has some good advise though. If you are trying something for the first time it is wise to do on your own time/meat first. Sometimes things sound good but they don't turn out good.
06-23-2007 09:14 AM
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Cyclops Offline
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Post: #18
Re: A Question (or Two) About Injecting
Hoochie is correct relative to KCBS rules. There is no marinading or injection of meats prior to the meat inspection at a competition.
Now that that is out of the way, MY LORD Hoochie! I read your injection technique and the only thought that comes to mind is "This is a piece of meat! You sound like you are injecting Novacaine(sp) prior to a root canal"!!! It don't sound pornagraphic, it sounds like it hurts!!!
06-23-2007 06:56 PM
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Pegleg Offline
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Post: #19
Re: A Question (or Two) About Injecting
I've done quite a few pork shoulders/butts and have always just used rub, of course the flavor is mostly in the bark and about a smoke ring width in. On a brisket the flavor is all the way through, is this reason attributed to the lack of fat inside of the piece of meat itself? (maybe I just answered my own question).

Lyle Earl
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06-24-2007 09:25 PM
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Tayster Offline
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Post: #20
Re: A Question (or Two) About Injecting
Wow, I think this is the longest post I have ever started. Most of my "stupid questions" get a few answers, but you guys have gone far above anything I expected.

Thank you so much for your input.

For the record, I had some friends over for pulled pork on Saturday and I decided to inject them to see if I could tell the difference. It didn't effect (or is that affect) the flavor in any way that I could tell, but I did find something that made it better. I wrapped the pork in foil after it had been cooked, put it in a cooler for about 45 minutes and then pulled it.

Man, have I been doing it wrong in the past!

Thanks for all your help.

If a cow ever got the chance, he'd eat you and everyone you care about!
06-25-2007 07:52 AM
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Re: A Question (or Two) About Injecting
Novocaine? Novocaine? We don't use no stickin' novocaine in our offices... That is for wimps and girly-boys, Jim... And when we do have to use it on you sissys out there, no, we do not use the same technique as I described for injecting a butt... Although that might be a new/good idea... :shock:

Pegleg, if anything, I think you get more flavoring internally with a brisket due to the fact it is not as thick generally... Therefore the smoke is able to penetrate a little more... A brisket generally has less internal fat /marbling than a brisket, but I don't think the fat in a butt is what is keeping the smoke from penetrating... I am of the understanding it has more to do with the thickness of the butt compared to the brisket... There may be other reasons, too... Maybe T or Jim (Cyclops) can chime in here and teach us a little more...
06-25-2007 10:21 AM
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Cyclops Offline
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Post: #22
Re: A Question (or Two) About Injecting
No Novocaine?? Then you better have something better and knowing you, you do!
No science on my part here and "T" would be much better to respond, but if you look at both cuts of meat, Brisket when cooked is a much more "open" piece of meat. I believe it has a higher level of colligen break-down than pork. That would allow more smoke to penetrate early in the process. I don't believe that once the meat has "sealed" that any more smoke is imparted past the ring. I agree that the amount of marbling doesn't really play a role in the amount of smoke, but never forget "the fat is where the flavor is" . But then, I am the guy who likes "cheek meat". "T" cut some for me from the pig he was doing one Friday and when I told him what I wanted, he said, "you gonna eat that"?? Man, spread it on a piece of french bread like butter. HHMMM GOOD !!!
06-25-2007 11:15 AM
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T Offline
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Post: #23
Re: A Question (or Two) About Injecting
Yo, Not to start an up roar about the above issues because everyone has there own interpetations. I have always tried to cook with an even balance of flavors encluding rub, sauce or whatever technique I use. I know guys that to me over smoke there meat and sausage, but if that's there thing and there preference more power to them. They have achieved this in a few ways, one being to choke the damper and not have the smoke flow through the chamber as fast in the begining of the cook. I my self strieve to have a clean burning fire as I have taught many of you. A true barbequer has several bases to cover. He has to know his meat, his cooker, the fuel he is using and the temperature to maintain and achieve the perfect finished product, and again it's the cooks choice of the temperature one choosesa to cook at and it will have a bearing on the completion time. There are some who smoke pork and brisket at a high temp these days. I my self did a six hour brisket and it wasn't bad. This comand of your cooker is also a huge help in competition cooking as far as your timing is concerned. My understanding has been that the smoke stops penatrating the meat around 140 degrees. I have also had results with big smoke rings and fair smoke rings, but this I think can be attributed to the starting temp of the meat when placed on the cooker. Thanks both Hoochie and Jim for your above post I think we might have covered it? Hope this helps?

keep it low-n-slow " T "

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06-25-2007 08:57 PM
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SoEzzy Offline
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Post: #24
Re: A Question (or Two) About Injecting
Hoochie-Que;p="4981 Wrote:Therefore the smoke is able to penetrate a little more... A brisket generally has less internal fat /marbling than a brisket

How do you manage to buy your briskets with less fat or marbling than your brisket?







I know it was a slip of the keyboard, but I had to comment! :lol:

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Respice = you didn't use enough spice the first time! adspice = you ought to add spice, you know? prospice = you should be an advocate for spice!
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06-30-2007 03:32 PM
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