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IBCA Format
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Big Johnson's BBQ Offline
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Post: #1
IBCA Format
So what did you guys think about the IBCA Format?

I really liked it even with the boxes being the wrong size. An hour between turn-ins makes it a much more enjoyable Comp!

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06-11-2012 03:19 PM
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LH1440 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: IBCA Format
I agree, with not being so rushed between turn ins. It was not nearly as crazy.

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06-11-2012 03:26 PM
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SoEzzy Offline
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Post: #3
RE: IBCA Format
Not that I've competed IBCA but here are some of the pro's and cons as I see them!

Cons
1) Scoring gives you just your position, no other information, no information as to where you can improve, appearance, taste, or texture tenderness.
2) Judging via the public, rather than experienced BBQ judges, we don't have a very educated population for BBQ, folks will and can like "Good Food" but can they recognize Good BBQ... I'm not so sure?
3) If it's going to be public blind judges then let's go 100% public, trying to hit between experienced BBQ judges expectations and Joe Public is too wide a spread to get correct with a single entry.
4) Fitting 1/2 chicken in the box neatly can be hard, on the bigger competitions 50 + you have to fit 2 x 1/2 chickens in the box to make it even more difficult.
5) No trimming after the cook!
6) Don't like the ticket system, it is possibly open to abuse!

Pro's
1) The 1 hour window for many teams may help, and I could easily be one of them.
2) Only 3 competition meats, (discretionary, could be more or different)... but then with an optional 3 other, (or more), entries!
3) Don't need to worry about points, just need to worry about places! Unless you score a first place and a second place in two categories, and another team takes a second and a first in the same, then you are going to be chasing the higher finish in the last.
4) No garnish.

Respice, adspice, prospice. Latin proverb.
Respice = you didn't use enough spice the first time! adspice = you ought to add spice, you know? prospice = you should be an advocate for spice!
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06-11-2012 03:53 PM
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tex-mex Offline
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Post: #4
RE: IBCA Format
(06-11-2012 03:53 PM)SoEzzy Wrote:  Not that I've competed IBCA but here are some of the pro's and cons as I see them!

Cons
1) Scoring gives you just your position, no other information, no information as to where you can improve, appearance, taste, or texture tenderness.
2) Judging via the public, rather than experienced BBQ judges, we don't have a very educated population for BBQ, folks will and can like "Good Food" but can they recognize Good BBQ... I'm not so sure?
3) If it's going to be public blind judges then let's go 100% public, trying to hit between experienced BBQ judges expectations and Joe Public is too wide a spread to get correct with a single entry.
4) Fitting 1/2 chicken in the box neatly can be hard, on the bigger competitions 50 + you have to fit 2 x 1/2 chickens in the box to make it even more difficult.
5) No trimming after the cook!
6) Don't like the ticket system, it is possibly open to abuse!

Pro's
1) The 1 hour window for many teams may help, and I could easily be one of them.
2) Only 3 competition meats, (discretionary, could be more or different)... but then with an optional 3 other, (or more), entries!
3) Don't need to worry about points, just need to worry about places! Unless you score a first place and a second place in two categories, and another team takes a second and a first in the same, then you are going to be chasing the higher finish in the last.
4) No garnish.

I think the ticketing of turn-in boxes works very well , the best yet for Blind turn-ins.
Like the no trimming rule
In regards to chicken turn-ins a much larger box is used when two halves need to be turned in orthewise the standard 9" is used

1 hour to long in between turn-ins
3 meats chicken 1/2, ribs , brisket , some venues add the 4th Pork butts , like the open catagory , and peoples choice, Think the promoter should speify which meat will be used in P C , then everyone is on same level ..............

omar / Lone Star
06-11-2012 04:15 PM
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HDBBQ Offline
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Post: #5
RE: IBCA Format
I think it was a fun format to cook. Nicd break from the hustle and Brussels of KCBS I hope they bring in more of these to give a nice mix of KCBS and IBCA. The fair should also be a fun cook as well.

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06-11-2012 04:22 PM
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rstone Offline
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Post: #6
RE: IBCA Format
With no sperate scores for presentation, taste,and tenderness. (sp) you have less of one judge throwing in a cureve ball. This contest had experienced judges and guess judges.

I sure most of the teams did not know but after the contest you could have gone and tasted the top 10 boxes.

As far as a Blind Judging, everyone there can tell ya what happens when you lose the ticket. No one know the top 10 until each and every meat is called. Only then do the know who won what and they can call the top 10 overall.

I would love to add Pork to the three meat the next contest.
06-11-2012 04:30 PM
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SoEzzy Offline
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Post: #7
RE: IBCA Format
(06-11-2012 04:30 PM)rstone Wrote:  With no sperate scores for presentation, taste,and tenderness. (sp) you have less of one judge throwing in a cureve ball. This contest had experienced judges and guess judges.

That's partially my point, if you cook to match the public taste you may cook one way, if you cook to experienced judges you may cook a totally different way, as the expectations can be different between them.

Quote:I sure most of the teams did not know but after the contest you could have gone and tasted the top 10 boxes.

Well if "Most of the teams didn't know it", wouldn't that be another rule that should, could, would have been one to highlight at the cooks meeting, it doesn't sound like it was pointed out.

Quote:As far as a Blind Judging, everyone there can tell ya what happens when you lose the ticket. No one know the top 10 until each and every meat is called. Only then do the know who won what and they can call the top 10 overall.

Yup, I wasn't there for the awards, I had to leave about 1:00 PM, but listening to the system and reading about it on the IBCA site, it has holes in the system that I don't like the sound of.

Quote:I would love to add Pork to the three meat the next contest.

I agree, I think cooking the 4 meats means the family gets to eat some of what they are used to, I always like pulled pork the next day.

Respice, adspice, prospice. Latin proverb.
Respice = you didn't use enough spice the first time! adspice = you ought to add spice, you know? prospice = you should be an advocate for spice!
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06-11-2012 04:45 PM
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tex-mex Offline
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Post: #8
RE: IBCA Format
(06-11-2012 04:30 PM)rstone Wrote:  With no sperate scores for presentation, taste,and tenderness. (sp) you have less of one judge throwing in a cureve ball. This contest had experienced judges and guess judges.

I sure most of the teams did not know but after the contest you could have gone and tasted the top 10 boxes.

As far as a Blind Judging, everyone there can tell ya what happens when you lose the ticket. No one know the top 10 until each and every meat is called. Only then do the know who won what and they can call the top 10 overall.

I would love to add Pork to the three meat the next contest.

Not everyone lost their ticket Smile but a certain team member did , and he knows for sure what can happen ...... Smile Smile

Add Pork and drop Brisket ?? or Ribs , chicken has to stay ..........

omar / Lone Star


Got to remember guys , IBCA cooks would have some concerns cooking KCBS rules..

If you do not like the rules and format skip the event and go on to the next one !!

omar
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2012 04:55 PM by tex-mex.)
06-11-2012 04:52 PM
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rstone Offline
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Post: #9
RE: IBCA Format
I cooked the same both IBCA contest as I cooked KCBS and it worked both times. I was told by SYD and Lost Gonzo of Texas, cook just like you do all the time.

So I dont think there is a need to change how anyone one cooks.

Great to be able to cook both KCBS and ICBA! I think In KCBS they should get rid of the Garnish if any changes need to be made.

I had the lost ticket!!!! It wasnt lost it was deep in my wallet. My Brisket box blew away and had to get a new one. I forgot I took off the first stub so at the awards I had the ols stub and not the new stub too! Boy was that stupid of me!!!! Missed a call to come up but found the stub and got it all straighten out!!!

I think have 4 meats the next time and 45 minutes in between would be perfect.
06-11-2012 07:08 PM
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stewartr002 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: IBCA Format
As a fairly new (second season) KCBS certified judge, this was my first IBCA judging opportunity. At first, I wasn't sure how this was going to work but after reading the rules and watching the first event (chicken) judging, it became more clear. Following my experience, several things came to the forefront for me and I thought you might like to hear what I thought as a first time judge for this format. Here's my observations:
1. It was cool to get to taste every team's entry for the category. I got to judge two meats...ribs and brisket. Every judge (there were 10 on my table) took a sample of the meat by cutting off a piece with a knife and fork and passing the box around the table. For the Brisket that wasn't hard but for the ribs, I didn't feel I was always getting the best part of the rib as much had been cut away already. Each judge was allowed 1/4 of a rib and there were 7 in a box. Some judges' 1/4th was a little bigger than others ;-). I wanted to pick the rib up and take a bite to get the full flavor, smell, and tenderness but I couldn't. After a few boxes, I got the hang of it and started cutting off better samples. Still, I didn't feel like I was getting the best of what the cook had offered.
2. It was different and a bit difficult to give one score for each entry combining aroma, appearance, tenderness, taste, and overall into one score. I found myself conflicted sometimes between taste and tenderness and had to decide which was more important.
3. We weren't allowed to do all three meats back-to-back because the Judge captain concluded that we would be too full after having sampled 2 meats (15 samples each) and it wouldn't be fair to the cooks on the third meat. After doing 2 in a row, I would have to agree that doing a third right away would have been tough. So, you probably never have the same judges for all three meats in a competition. I wondered how much that would affect the outcome.
4. We were directed to judge each entry individually and I believe I was able to do that. However, toward the end of each meat category, it was hard not to compare the later entries against the earlier entries. When you are giving only one score for each entry, I caught myself thinking..."well, if I gave that an 8, this must be a 9 or 10." I fought off the natural urge to compare entries and honestly was as objective as I could be for each entry. However, I believe in this format, it's easier to fall into the comparison mode than when you are judging separate categories for each entry.
5. Overall, I think I prefer the KCBS rules over the ICBA because I can judge each entry more objectively in 3 different categories. I feel more comfortable with that format. However, that doesn't mean one is better than the other. It's just my personal preference which may be the result of what I started with.

Okay, I've said enough. I'd be interested in hearing what other judges think along with other cooks. While I don't compete, I do cook every weekend and can relate somewhat.

Randy

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06-11-2012 08:31 PM
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T Offline
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Post: #11
RE: IBCA Format
Thanks Randy for your honest insight, much respect!

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06-11-2012 08:37 PM
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Razcals Ribs Offline
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Post: #12
RE: IBCA Format
Thank You Randy

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06-11-2012 09:18 PM
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LH1440 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: IBCA Format
Thanks Randy, for the JUdges view point.

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06-11-2012 10:22 PM
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Pigout Offline
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Post: #14
Thumbs Up RE: IBCA Format
Interesting view point, thanks for the insight! Smile

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06-12-2012 05:45 AM
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Rod Livingston Offline
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Post: #15
RE: IBCA Format
I cooked exactly the same for IBCA or KCBS. I love the format and it gives the new guys and the pros the same chance in that the judges are giving scores based on simply if they think it is good bbq.
06-12-2012 11:05 AM
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pwheeler Offline
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Post: #16
RE: IBCA Format
Thanks Randy. It's great to hear what judges and cooks thought of the IBCA format. Since that was my first competition I didn't have anything to compare it to. I will try to attend some KCBS competitions so I can see how they are run. I'm always open to suggestions and looking for ways to improve. I appreciate all the help all the teams and judges gave me during the planning phase of the Tooele Wild Horse BBQ, and the actual event. It went well, thanks to all of you. You were all great to work with and I look forward to working with you on the State Fair BBQ Competition in September.
06-21-2012 05:08 PM
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Larry Jacobs Offline
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Post: #17
RE: IBCA Format
Interesting group. Not a lot of chatter going on in their forum but tons of contests each week, most in Texas. Looks like the two in Utah and one in Hawaii are and oddity.

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06-21-2012 08:15 PM
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